Ichneumon confusor ?

Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby tlegrand on 31 Aug 2017, 21:28

Hello,

An Ichneumoninae found in North of France, Cassel, the 31 august 2017, in long Grass, near a wooded path
Maybe a female Ichneumon confusor or Ichneumon molitorius but I'm not sure ? I count 34 flagellomeres on the antenna


Greetings,

Thomas

Ichneumoninae (13).JPG

Ichneumoninae (14).JPG

Ichneumoninae (18).JPG

Ichneumoninae (17).JPG

Ichneumoninae.JPG

Ichneumoninae (15).JPG
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby tlegrand on 31 Aug 2017, 21:29

2nd part

Ichneumoninae (12).JPG

Ichneumoninae (19).JPG

Ichneumoninae (16).JPG
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby Geir_Oersnes on 01 Sep 2017, 01:04

Ichneumon molitorius for me. I have the Ichneumon confusor female in my collection (ID by Valemberg), it has hind tibia clearly red-yellow-red-black and flagellum has sligthly broader apical segments. Area superomedia is a bit different too, as in Perkins key (see fig. 602).

What's the size?
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby Camille Thirion on 01 Sep 2017, 10:15

Segment 1 flagellum me parait long, pas de scopa, peu de chance pour confusor!

plutôt melanotis!

molitorius a une scopa!
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby tlegrand on 01 Sep 2017, 10:42

Thanks you very much Geir and Camille for your reply !
It is approximately 12 mm without antenna and 15 mm with antenna

Camille for Ichneumon melanotis I wasn't sure if the area superomedia fitted with drawing and the specimen in your gallery ?
For the scopa, do the scopa of Ichneumon molitorius has to be big ? (because here it is very difficult to see but I don't find any species without a scopa that could fit)

Camille pour l'Ichneumon melanotis, le spécimen dans votre galerie et les dessins me semblait avoir une area superomedia qui ne collé pas à cette espèce ?
Pour la scopa, est-ce que la scopa d'Ichneumon molitorius est grande ? (ici il me semblait qu'elle est très dur à voir et je n'ai pas trouvé d'autres espèces sans scopa qui pourrait correspondre ?)
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby Geir_Oersnes on 01 Sep 2017, 11:18

From the photos, scopa seems to be present, the ventral area on hind coxa is only a little bit out of focus (you could try to make another photo?). I've been tricked a few times by this myself, from my own photos and also with microscopy (focus and lightning is very important to see the scopa clearly).
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby Camille Thirion on 01 Sep 2017, 14:10

scopa ???III
ventral view middle et III femurs????

Dans ma galerie melanotis a les tarses clairs, sombres chez molibrius! dt Valemberg

Ici tarses non infusqués!
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby tlegrand on 02 Sep 2017, 21:10

Thanks, Geir and Camille !

I have taken more pictures today of the hind coxa, I think the scopa is present ?
I have not yet the pictures of the second and third femurs from underside
Attachments
Ichneumoninae (21).JPG
Ichneumoninae (22).JPG
Ichneumoninae (20).JPG
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby Camille Thirion on 02 Sep 2017, 22:00

Des poils oui mais pas en structure dense d'une scopa!
Même faible, elle est visible
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby Geir_Oersnes on 03 Sep 2017, 11:38

Scopa is clearly present. It's not possible to see the surface sculpture through the hair patch, so it's molitorius sensu Hilpert 1992...

I'm attaching one of my own photos of ventral surface of coxa III. This is from one of the specimens I've identified as Ichneumon melanotis, it only have slightly more hairs (that lies flat on the surface) in the area where the scopa normally is. Your specimen has dense, erect hairs in this area! So scopa is present.
Attachments
melanotis Northern Norway 2014.jpg
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby Camille Thirion on 03 Sep 2017, 11:46

You never saw a scopa to say that this photo shows one!
The scopa with dense hairs, short and bristling!
The tarses are clear!
I shall therefore remain at melanotis!
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby Geir_Oersnes on 06 Sep 2017, 11:52

I'm not really sure what you mean Camille? Maybe you misunderstood my last post (which was a bit badly formulated?). In melanotis there should be no scopa (as in my previously attached photo), it SEEMS to be a dense patch of bristles on Thomas last three pictures.

I could also attach photo of scopa, from Ichneumon ligatorius female (from my own collection). Here scopa should be clearly visible. Maybe this does not help at all, but I hope it's helping out explaining the definition of a scopa...
Attachments
ichneumon ligatorius (scopa hind coxa).JPG
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby Camille Thirion on 06 Sep 2017, 13:25

Thank you!
Camille
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Re: Ichneumon confusor ?

Postby tlegrand on 06 Sep 2017, 15:23

Thanks you very much Camille and Geir and for all these informations !
Thanks you Geir for sharing your great pictures as well !
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